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Planthropology
Planthropology
99. Go Outside Kids, Staring at Plants, and Hugging Mountain Lions w/ Sarah Southerland
What's up Plant People! Today's guest is someone who I've unabashedly called, on multiple occasions, "The Funniest Person on the Internet." She was reluctant to wear the title, but I'm sticking with it! Sarah Southerland is the communication and social media specialist with the Oklahoma Dpeartment of Wildlife Conservation. Her social media presence is *wildly* popular across several platforms and consistently makes me laugh out loud. Whether talking about why we shouldn't snuggle mountain lions or discussing the finer points of live jackets, Sarah's communication style is brilliant, effective, and hilarious. We talked about life, nature, good communication, moon fish, prairies, and so much more! This episode was so much fun and I know you won't be able to stop smiling the whole time!
Sarah's Links
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Instagram
Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation Links
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Instagram
Tiktok
Website
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Planthropology is written, hosted, and produced by Vikram Baliga. Our theme song is "If You Want to Love Me, Babe, by the talented and award-winning composer, Nick Scout.
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What is up? plant people Hey, it's time once more for the Plantherpology podcast, the show where we dive into the lives, careers and general awesomeness of some very cool plants and nature people to figure out why they do what they do and what keeps them coming back for more. I'm Vikram Beliga, your host and your humble guide in this journey through the sciences and, as always, my dearest friends. I am so excited to be with you today. I'm gonna be honest, this one got me a little bit. I was so excited to talk to today's guests Like the fact that she even agreed to talk to me was crazy. But my guest runs what I think is the best account on social media and I'm not even gonna put any caveats on that. I think it is the funniest thing on the internet.
Speaker 1:So my guest today is named Sarah Sutherland and she is the social media specialist with the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation. Yes, my friends, that Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation that puts out banger after banger of funny tweet and TikTok and Instagram reel and it is, for me, the pinnacle of science communication right now. It's so good in terms of discussing policy and interacting with nature and all of it boils down to Sarah's brilliant mind and wonderful personality and incredible sense of humor, and now she runs the social media efforts at the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation, talking about everything from the reasons that you shouldn't hug a mountain lion's, as cute and huggable as they look, to why you should interact with wildlife and why you should wear a life jacket. She heads up the communication of so much science and so much policy and she does it, in my opinion, expertly. Sarah and I had a long, great conversation about her life, her career, the reason she does what she does and some of the ethos and ideas behind this wonderful outlet on the internet.
Speaker 1:So y'all are going to love Sarah. She is wonderful and an absolute delight of a human being And I don't think I'm overselling this. I think this is 100% an accurate representation of what you're about to hear. So I'm going to shut up so you can hear episode 99 of the Plant Hropology podcast with one of my very favorite people, sarah Sutherland. ["plan Thropology"]. ["plan Thropology"]. Sarah, i am so excited to talk to you today. Like I don't want to oversell this, but I think you're the funniest person on the internet.
Speaker 2:Oh no, that isn't oversell. You can't say that.
Speaker 1:I am tying you to that right now.
Speaker 2:Don't do that to me.
Speaker 1:Four seconds into this podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh no, what am I supposed to do? How long is this podcast?
Speaker 1:I mean as long as it needs to be. We're just going to talk about this the whole time. It's going to be real awkward.
Speaker 2:We don't have that much material, i know.
Speaker 1:You didn't realize you were supposed to come on and tell jokes for 40 minutes.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, Yeah terrible.
Speaker 1:So, sarah, why don't you introduce yourself a little bit more? Tell us what you do and your background, how you got there, whatever you want to tell us.
Speaker 2:OK, cool, let me think My name is Sarah Sutherland. I work for the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation. I am a communication and education specialist. So what that means is I do a lot of different things And my friends, who all have the same job title, do a lot of different things, and we try to make it work. And what else about me? I have been here for like three years And, yes, that is it. I'm sorry I didn't rehearse. Maybe we can do that again. We can do that again. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:No, it's fine, It's fine. So what's your background? What did you study in school? Where did you grow up? All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:OK, let me think. What do we want to do first? Do we want to do like I guess start with your background.
Speaker 1:Where did you grow up? How did you get into nature? How?
Speaker 2:to get into nature. That's good. Let me think I grew up kind of all over the place, so my parents are preachers And before that they were in the military. So I was actually born in Texas. I was born on Fort Hood, a little army brat, and then we just moved around a lot. So my dad would take churches in really small towns And it was just me I'm like one of five siblings, so big family And we would just move around a lot to these small little churches in Texas and Oklahoma. So I was always in a rural area without a lot of friends.
Speaker 2:And so what do you do? You just go outside. And that's kind of where I don't want to say there was ever a moment that I was like oh, wow, outside. It was just we were. I don't want to say we were feral, because that sounds bad on my mom, but I'm one of the older kids, so I'm like we were in, go outside kids, get out of the house, kids. And if I wanted peace and quiet, i had one of my favorite places to go was this ditch behind the house And we lived in And there was this tornado shelter that had been dumped there And so I was just sitting on top of this cement block in a ditch, probably covered in poison, ivy and stuff. That's how I figured out I'm not allergic, that's good to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was about treaching through this ditch. My dad would call me and be like you can't go through there, there's going to be snakes and stuff. I'd be like, yeah, i saw them, there's so many snakes in there, just kind of a thing. So I was an outside kid And then as a grown up, of course you get into college And a lot of times people lose that connection to nature when you're trying to get your life together because nature very much is a leisure thing for a lot of people And in your lifestyles.
Speaker 2:So I got really broke basically in college and realized that I was pretty good at living in my car. So I was very much one of those National Parks, hobos kind of situation where I'm being Ted's parents. It's so sad Everyone was converting their vans and stuff because I was in college at the big era of influencers van life culture. That was hot when I was in college That was what everyone was doing. I could not afford that. I was so broke. But I had a forward escape And I had pretty good knowledge of how to start a fire.
Speaker 2:So I just did that and learned through lots of trial and error basically how to be outside more and did a lot of backpacking and saw a lot of the country that way, just very much like the broke kid wandering around way. Don't regret it. I do wish I would have had more protein in my diet at that time. But well, and now I'm here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting you say that because I think there is this very romanticized like you're talking about, like hashtag van life culture on the internet And you see all these vans that people build out. I'm like that cost you $70,000.
Speaker 2:It does. That is not like a Yes, it's like be free, be a nomad. And then you know, but I was eating like gold fishies. That was my sustenance for a long time, because you can buy those huge gallon versions for like 10 bucks. And then there's enough salt that you can get into altitude and be OK for a still Be. Like I'm, sustaining water, it's all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, goldfish are like the perfect altitude food.
Speaker 2:Oh they are. I could talk about that for an hour if you wanted to.
Speaker 1:I'll get you Like the pros and cons, or just the pros, of goldfish.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's only pros. That's like it has more cards than you think, but it's like 55 crackers is only like 140 calories, i think. Yes, yes. So if you're like working out or you're climbing like I run into climbing a lot and you're not looking for a snack that'll like make you take off your gloves or I like to ice climb. So I like snacks that I can just pull out and then put in my body, like I don't need a big barrier, i don't have time for wrappers, i just need like calories.
Speaker 1:You need a handful of goldfish and you need to be going, yeah, moving along, yes, ice climbing. So what I'm already getting a picture of is that you're far braver than me and way more adventurous than me.
Speaker 2:No, not really. I don't want to think that way, because I'm not, because you, like, i'm not good at any of it, like I'm not good at it, like you tell people that you do it and they think you're cool, and it's like no, no, no, no, no, no. Like there aren't photos of me doing this because I don't look. I look like I'm struggling the entire time, but it's fine, so you just go do it again. But I'm not good at anything that I do, especially athletically. I just go out there Like what else is there? What?
Speaker 2:else do you need No.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's fair. There is a quote from me in I don't know if it was my junior yearbook or my senior yearbook in high school. I played tennis in high school because look at me And the quote is yeah, tennis is okay, but chess is my real sport. I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I said that.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I'm bad at chess Like, in fact, I'm worse at chess than I am at tennis Next But at the time I was like this will be funny. I think, I have taken and I'm realizing now that I've done this for more of my life than I care to admit of oh, he tells silly little jokes and I've turned it into my, like my entire personality. Yes, That's my whole personality.
Speaker 2:Yes, i resonate with that. I resonate with people being like oh, you're funny. And then, especially when I was a kid. Now, as an adult, i really just I don't know what's wrong with me Like my brain, my brain is changing and I can feel it, but that's a different conversation.
Speaker 1:But as a kid.
Speaker 2:I'd be like, oh, this person liked me that one time that I did this, so I'm going to keep being that way, like keep fitting that vibe, and it gets hard to keep up with. I just feel like meet different people and you're like, okay, what do we do? Oh yeah, we're like a volleyball friend. And then when you get into dating, it's even worse because it's like, oh my God, yes, that was random, i'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no. I totally no, i'm totally right there with you. That's such like a relatable experience, just about Well. But it's also an interesting thing, like when we talk about, you know, hiking and camping and fishing, and even just like, like I got into in college for a little bit, just like going out and like looking at plants with friends and things like that, and because it's like, oh, this is something I can go do with someone. The nature in general and plants and animals and everything else are something that in a lot of ways, are really easy to like bond over, like you form good friendships doing those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Yes, like I don't know, i was such a loner in my connection to nature because it was literally how I got away from all my siblings. It's how I got out of the house, kind of a thing. And now that I'm a grownup and I'm doing things with people, i've actually had to learn to not be just such a weirdo, to be like they'll just take off walking and not tell people what you're doing or that you see, something Like I do that to my husband all the time. I'll just straight up, ditch him and then be like oh crap, i'm over here Like I don't think, sorry.
Speaker 1:Or like yeah, That's funny. That's really funny. Well, and I laugh because, like I've had a similar experience. My wife has a degree in wildlife science. She studied conservation and ecology And so like we'll go to the zoo and she's all about the animals And I'm this dope like standing off to the side, there's like lions and I'm staring at a tree like an idiot. And she's like what are you doing? I'm like this tree's cool. Yeah, and you know, I'm that guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like, I'm that way. I'm kind of both those people. My husband is like a huge plant guy. I wanted to record this podcast in our greenhouse but that didn't work out with the wifi situation. But he's like huge plant person, So whenever we go outside, he's usually just he just stays in one place for a little bit, which makes sense because plants Yeah, they stay put, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he like makes a little circle and then the circle gets bigger And then eventually we'll be like, okay, we've seen four trees. We've been here for 20 minutes.
Speaker 1:But you've seen all the trees, you've seen them thoroughly, yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So what did you study in college?
Speaker 2:I studied I wanted to be. I don't know why I wanted to do this, but I wanted to be a journalist that works overseas. What are the correspondence? I really wanted to study being a correspondent. So I did a professional media degree, which is like the technical degree. So it's like camera work, audio engineering, writing. It's like the technical degree of journalism. That's the best way I can describe it. And then I got a minor in photography.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so a lot of technical stuff. And then the minor came from. I really liked photography, but my mom was sure that I would like starve to death if I made that my major Which is funny because I paid for school but whatever. So I had enough pressure to be like leave me alone. But yeah, that's what I did. And then I got a job during college, right before I graduated, with there's a basketball team here in Oklahoma City. So I got a job with the funder here And yeah, and worked on their broadcasting team And that's where I did way more technical stuff. So that's where, like most of my, i credit like that, finishing my education off being like, okay, now use the camera.
Speaker 1:Like that's the thing That's interesting too, cause like and I'm excited to talk a little bit more about how that kind of transition into where you are now but you actually have to, like, use your degree, and that's weird to say, but I feel like a lot of people don't like- you get a degree and it's just like, oh, i'm just going to go get a job And it's cool that, like, like, you actually get to do the photography and the media and all that.
Speaker 2:It's very listen, i'm like it is not lost on me How like hashtag blessed I am to do that because it is media And. But even when I was in school it was like those jobs it it's transitioning now really hard the media industry, but even then it was like the people who wanted to be worked for newspapers. It's like that's not a job that people do anymore And that's not a job that people are age get. It's not a job that's paying you. There was a transition that, like, people were leaving print media and going to digital. So I just caught a wave of people being like, huh, we better learn how to use all this gadgets and software and stuff. Like, like, you better learn how to do a lot of different stuff. That's basically what my degree is And so I get to use it, but it's because I picked a ModgeProsh degree. If I went to like niche down, i probably I probably could have done better out the door. I don't know, but it would have been harder to get through that door. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:So it's like yeah, i went for the Swiss Army knife.
Speaker 1:And I think I think there's really something to be said for that, because I think that that's a message that could send to students. A lot is that, oh, you need to specialize, you need to like figure out exactly what you're gonna do and spend four years studying that and then go find a job in this one tiny little thing. Yes, and there's something to that, right, like you said, like maybe there are higher paying, like higher sort of level jobs in very specific niche things, but, like goodness, they're few and far between.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and it's a big bet And like, honestly, so many talented people don't get those jobs, like so many people who are deserve those jobs don't get those jobs, and it has nothing to do with you if you don't get it or if you don't make it through that door. It's literally like a million other people who are better than me won't get this job kind of a situation. So, yeah, that's, i went for a variety.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, And I think that's cool Cause, like you know and there is something to be said too, I think, for like just starting- right Like just like, okay, i've got a degree, i'm going to pick something that's close, you know, and just starting.
Speaker 2:Yes, I picked sports media. I did not want to do sports media, but literally I just got a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:It's like this sounds like something I'm learning to do and something I can do later, so I'm going to just do this. And some of my best friends, who are still like in sports media doing awesome stuff, did the same thing, where you're just like, okay, here's an opportunity, i'm going to just take it and see what happens, and that has guided me. Well, it seems like a slacker mindset, but it's really not. It's just like I don't know, here's an opportunity, what's the worst I could do?
Speaker 1:Fail, it'll be okay, yeah, and I think Yeah, and that is actually, I think, really powerful in a lot of ways, because, you know, i'm thinking back to the time like when I was in high school, college or whatever, and there was a picture painted of what like success, or it's not even really the word I mean, but like what your life should look like, going forward. They're like you know, you do this, you get your degree, you go get the job, you have the house with the fence and all the blah, blah, blah, but, like, in my experience, life rarely looks that way.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think like there should be more people telling you that when you're at your really young and ambitious ages And like I was just a really scared kid all through college because I was so poor Oh my God, it was so poor, borderline, homeless and just very on my own, and so that survivor mentality kicks in and you're like how am I gonna get through this, how am I gonna become an adult after this, like if I can't even pay my rent now, kind of a thing, and you just like scrap your way through it and realize that, oh, maybe there's some, maybe I was doing the thing the whole time Like I kept waiting to arrive to a place, be like I'll land in magic adult world.
Speaker 2:And that never happened. It still hasn't happened.
Speaker 1:Oh, i don't. Yeah, no, i'm three degrees in and I still haven't. I'm still waiting to feel like a grownup. Yeah, And it's a scary thing, like so. For part of my job at least. Currently I run a horticultural garden and a greenhouse on campus at my university. I hear Texas Tech and like there's a lot of like. I employ undergrads and people and grad students And some days I still look around for the adult in the room and then I'm like, oh crap, that's me.
Speaker 2:I do that all the time I'm the grownup here, Yes, i do that all the time I have an intern, which blows my mind. I'm like they gave me an intern, oh my God. And I forget to like. What's a better way to say this? Casually, i forget that I'm your supervisor, even though I don't. That sounds so bad.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, i get it, I totally get it.
Speaker 2:I'm like what are you doing today? And she's like you tell me. And I'm like oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I have to give you things. No, it's funny because sometimes my staff will come in and they'll just be like standing there looking at me, i'm like what?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, you need me for things sorry.
Speaker 2:What, yeah, what do you want? Go away, go find something to do. Oh, i've got to give you something to do.
Speaker 2:She's so great too, because she's learned that I'm like dude, just do it. She's such a self-starter. So I really dread the day that she, she wants to be a game warden. do you know what that is? Okay. so she wants to be a game warden And for some reason, i have her right now. So she's like the social media intern who only uses Facebook And it gets on my ever-loving nerves. So I'm like I asked for. they're like here's an intern. I'm like well, i need a social media intern. They're like this one wants to be a game warden.
Speaker 1:So Kind of the same, it's not. Yeah, sure, yeah. For those people listening that may not know, give me the elevator pitch of what a game warden does.
Speaker 2:A game warden is a state law enforcement officer who enforces fish and wildlife laws and regulations. They check a lot of licenses. They're like first responders. They it's a big, it's a big kid job And my intern wants to be one of those people and she very well, very well, is qualified to be that. She's like already finished her degree, she's like on her way to that track And I just have her right now being like let's answer Facebook questions, let's make a tick tock. She's like doing her qualifications and she's being like on her days off and I don't have her. She's being like pepper sprayed to get like cleat certified and stuff And I'm like, oh, i'm like okay.
Speaker 1:You're like look at this funny thing I put on Twitter. She's like they sprayed me in the face today. Yeah, I got bear, mace. Look what's happening.
Speaker 2:What's happened And I'm like, oh, i'm so sorry, but I'm like, good, i'm glad that. I'm glad that our game wardens would have to. I don't know that they have to go through all of that. I'm glad that qualified people are doing that job. I just think it's funny that I'm supervising one of those people. I'm like I'm no business with you, but it's okay.
Speaker 1:That's so funny. Actually, i think that's a good place to take a quick break, because when we come back, i want to talk more about your job specifically and what you do, how you got into it, all of that, and then Just a little bit more about communicating about science and nature and all of that. So we'll take a quick break. We'll be right back. Well, hey there, welcome to the midroll. My friends, i'm so happy you're here, aren't you enjoying this episode? I think when I was editing this episode, i smiled the whole time. It was so much fun. Thanks for listening, thanks for being a part of plant anthropology Your support means the world to me. Thanks to the tech tech department of plant and soil science for supporting the show, thanks to the pod fix network for letting me be a part of it And, again, mostly thanks to you for listening. If you want to follow me and connect with plant through pod fix, i want to follow me and connect with plant through apology. Go, hit up all my social medias. I am Plant through apology, or some variation thereof on instagram, twitter, facebook even though, as we talk about in this episode, i rarely check facebook anymore And you look for the green background with the bruscom pine, and that is me. You can also look me up as of the plant prof pretty much everywhere.
Speaker 1:If you would like to support the show in other ways, there are a lot of ways you can do it. First off, tell a friend that is still the best way to help this podcast grow. If you think they're like plants and nature and great conversations with really good people, send them a link to plant through apology. Hey, start them with this episode This is a really good one and then tell them some of your other favorites that they may enjoy. You can leave me a rating and review pretty much anywhere apple podcasts, pod chaser, spotify, cast box really wherever you listen. I would love it if you would drop me a rating and review. I wear a size five star. My birthday is coming up, and if you'd like to give me a gift, a five star rating and some nice kind words Would go a long way. I also really want to know what you think genuinely, though, so if you've got thoughts, comments, ideas for the show, shoot me an email at plant through apology pod at gmailcom. I would love to hear from you. You can also head over to plant through apology podcom for all things.
Speaker 1:Plant through apology, an archive of old episode links to merch and everything else that you might want to know about this show, and today I don't have a trailer for you, but I do have a plug for my book, plants to the rescue. This episode is being released on June 22nd 2023 and we're about three weeks from the release of my first book, plants to the rescue, which is about climate change and food supply and, uh, all the cool science that we're using to um, breed new plants and find other uses for plants to address those things, as well as stuff like pollution and lighting and all of those cool things. It is a non-fiction book written for middle grade kids, so, like you know, third through fifth grade, ish, eight to 12 years old. It goes on sale again on july 11th everywhere, but it's available for pre-order now through your favorite online bookseller. It would mean the world to me if you would buy one for, uh, the plant lover or aspiring plant lover in your life.
Speaker 1:The illustrations are done by a guy named brian lambart, who is absolutely incredible. It's published by a wonderful publishing house called neon squid, so check out their other books as well. They're all non-fiction and they're all written by some really amazing folks, so if you go check that out, it would mean a lot to me. But aside from that, let's jump back into this great conversation with sarah and hear more about her outreach and the work she does on social media. All right, well, we are back. Sarah, other than um supervising game wardens, uh, or more soon to be potential game wardens?
Speaker 2:Just one, i do not see me.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't tell people that right Okay. Okay uh so. So tell us a little bit more about your job, because you've got what seems like a really interesting position, um, doing communications for a government agency, and like how did that come about? How did you get into that?
Speaker 2:Okay, so it. It. I want to say it came from being like deeply, deeply unemployed in the pandemic. So I I told you I started at the thunder, so what had happened was like I don't know if you follow basketball, but there was this one game that happened during COVID, like early days of COVID, march 2020.
Speaker 2:Yeah um, where, like one of the players had it, but this was like before anyone really knew much about it. This was like when it was this mystery disease you die on contact kind of a situation And, um, so like one of the players had had it and they cancelled the game And so essentially, like that game just shut down the NBA. But me and my stupid little butt was like in The locker room media room area and we were just stranded there for several hours. Oh my gosh, yeah, me and my friends were just like, okay, cool, this mystery disease is in the building. People are like kind of freaking out because, yeah, like they come over the intercom, the game didn't even start and they're just like everything's okay but leave. It's like, um, the thunder.
Speaker 2:Actually, i think they ended up doing like a Special documentary or something about it. So if you want to go, look at that, that's somewhere, um, but yeah. So I just kind of saw the writing on the wall of like there's probably never going to be a smoother exit From a job in my life than this right now. So it was just I basically got to say like, okay, i'm gonna, like I don't want to say break up with us, but like I'm gonna go try to find something else and just got to experience being So unemployed for like nine months after that, like I entered the job market in march of 2020. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, speaking of extreme sports.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, it sucked, but also, um, really learned a lot about what is even possible with my degree and experience. And um, i learned like a lot of social media people Were what, like my resume just kept getting picked up by people looking for like social media And, um, the wildlife department was one of them. I met Kelly, who's my supervisor. She reached out to me and she's like hey, hey, this looks good, please consider applying for it. We've never had this position before, so like they're, they never had a social media person before. So we're both kind of like looking for Some to try something and we just really meshed. And then from there, like I've been here ever since, so it really did come from just Going into the wild and being like what's gonna happen. And then like I think, and that's all right, i found this and it's worked out thankfully. But uh, yeah, zero, zero contacts as to like what this would even look like. On both sides We were just like, okay, cool.
Speaker 1:So so that's really interesting because I think You know the type of communication, i think and we'll get into some of the specifics of it as we get into this but like the type of policy communication, science communication, the things that y'all do Like that's become very like in vogue in a lot of ways, yeah, and and. I feel like and I don't know this for sure I feel like y'all were some of the first ones doing it.
Speaker 2:I like to say that, but like that sounds Pretty arrogant So I don't want to. I'd like to say we were a little bit on the trend at least.
Speaker 1:Uh, but yeah because, like you know, a few years ago Wendy's started eviscerating people on twitter, right That was their whole thing. Yes, We're just gonna be horrible to other humans on twitter and everyone was like, uh, they're funny And like that was, i think, some of the early day and and it sounds weird to say this but like brands taking more of a Like having having more of a personality, so to speak on social media instead. Of this is our policy, this is our thing. They were like actually like real people on there.
Speaker 2:Yes, i, i don't want to say that's even a trend, i want to like that's just a pivot in the landscape, like it's it's. It's not technology evolving, but it is a little bit of a ball move, you know, because it's like people's internet literacy changed, changes like the longer that we use it. Yeah, people don't like talking about, so I don't know why you would let your whole social platform sound like one And then wonder why it's not working.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think we forget sometimes that like and you say it's, i think you kind of Is technology evolving in some ways, or at least our application of it. I think we forget that, like social media is still So young what I was a freshman in college when Facebook came out, like 2005 as freshman college and It was like you know, you could message people at your university that had a dot edu.
Speaker 1:Like You're like I have nine friends on Facebook. I'm kind of a big deal And it was. It was like this whole weird thing and so, like, even in my experience, my entire adult life Has been sort of watching this thing evolve and and this, like you say, i think this is a big evolution in the way that we have Started to use the outlet, use the technology.
Speaker 2:Yes, i actually agree, because it's like how we communicate, we I don't know.
Speaker 2:We just get so stuck in believing that like people think and feel the same way that we Do, and then we have this whole context of, like human evolution. That is just the internet, and so, like, if you really think about it, the internet isn't even that new, i mean, isn't even that old. So of course, it's changed the way that we speak to each other, and then we developed this whole new part of the internet that's designed just to speaking to each other Essentially to strangers and then we put algorithms behind it to make us better at it. So it's like you either learn how to use the tool or you don't, but it's essentially like speaking another language. It there's a lot of Literacy that has to go into it, and I think the successful brands are behind when it comes to being like Just underestimating the customer. I think it's really rude to Assume that people can't read crappy marketing or like that people can't read low effort Content. If that makes sense, it's like because they do and they will tell you about it.
Speaker 1:Oh, oh for sure. Oh, absolutely 1 million percent, yes, so, so then. so, specifically, i guess, talk a little bit about and I don't even know what the right way to ask this question, so I'm gonna leave it a little open-ended.
Speaker 2:Please do.
Speaker 1:So so you have sort of multiple platforms of Like Oklahoma Department of Wildlife, right Like that you you have outlets on Instagram, twitter, tiktok, it kind of kind of everywhere. How, how did that? I mean see, you got into this job. You and your supervisor were both sort of trying to figure out what it was gonna look like, how it Evolved into like what it is today because, like I feel like over the past year, your stuff has gained so much popularity.
Speaker 2:It's well, a lot of work, like. I want to say like it is on purpose, so like that's always a positive thing. So when I got here, i was really lucky that That Kelly, the supervisor that I have that hired me. She was the person running the social media accounts, just by volunteer basis, like basically They they got a Facebook account, i want to say in like 2008 or something like that, and then Just like used it for announcements and things like that, and so it was pretty successful and popular because it was older To and like people used it.
Speaker 2:But when I got here, kelly was moving up to a supervisor position And it had just grown to this thing that couldn't just be an Add-on to a full-time job. It had to be a full-time job And so I basically just have like a lot more room to actually do the work necessary to make it take off and change it because, like, it's hard to try to do as a side gig, because it is something that I'm a specialist in And I feel really bad when you like you hear the trope all the time of like and interns can doing our stuff, like Controlling our stuff. It's like wow, that's. I don't think you know what you're doing in that person, like that's a full-time job. But okay, don't do that to them, but you should give them a raise and full-time benefits. But yeah, so it took a lot of work to get things to take off. Basically, i inherited it and then Was like alright, here's how, here's where we can improve. And Twitter was a big problem child for us, which is like no hate to anybody, because Twitter's hard.
Speaker 2:It is hard and it's a very tough audience to oh my gosh, very tough audience and also it was 2020, so, um, tough, tough audience of Yeah, so it. It was a lot of just throwing things against the wall and seeing if it would stick and then Taking really hard notes when people would like be rude to me. I really can't be like they didn't like that.
Speaker 2:Let's try another joke Basically, and then really working on the algorithm stuff on the back end and just telling the people that I work with and then I volunteer with. Be like I'm not just Messing around, like I am being earnestly trying and that took a second to build that trust to be like I'm not just goofing around, guys, this is my purpose.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's such a good point too, especially on the communication side of this, because, like it, like you're saying and I think it's a good point that you make that No, it's like a real job. Like it's like a real difficult thing, because in the past You would have people that read, right, newsletters and press releases and go on the radio and go on TV, and I'm sure that's still something that is done quite a bit in a lot of places, right? Yes, i worked for the extension service for four years as a county agent and I did a lot of that, right? Yeah, but it was like I can get on there and write a newsletter that a hundred people read, or I can write a funny tweet that has some actual content and it could go viral and and Two, two million people might see it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And there is real value to it.
Speaker 2:It is, it is in. Like last year, i think, we got like eight million Interactions and just like No, that's, that's not right.
Speaker 2:I think in likes, retweets and And something, it's a really small metric. It's not including impressions. We got that many people directly Talking to us just on Twitter. That's a lot of people. That's where people then like comes to the website. Sometimes It's like those are people directly talking to us. We're not counting like the might, what I consider better vanity metrics, or it's like people saw it, the people who saw tweets. I want to say it's like 163 million or something like just really high visibility, and it's like okay, the content is very important because it moves fast, yeah, on Twitter. So it's like we got a pic, you got a cherry pic. It's a small piece of content but it goes far. It's like a marble on a slingshot.
Speaker 1:No, it's pretty true. One of the one of the first like big tweets I remember seeing, i think when I followed y'all, was about a mountain lion and like. Telling people not to hug it.
Speaker 2:God, i'm flake. If I could undo anything, if I hold life, i Would undo that I. Every time I see that photo, i Feel like one of my kidneys like twinge a little bit. It's just something deep within me that like hates it. Yes, that happened. So basically, my co-worker Darren here, i'll show you. I'm sorry the podcast is a Audio medium but, like Vikram gets to see this, this is the whiteboard where all of our tweets come from okay, yes, i just the words.
Speaker 1:I saw very quickly were the bachelorette and waffle house.
Speaker 2:Yes, what is that? I think Animal Bachelorette, okay. So basically everybody walks by and like just brights down tweets, and then our tweets come from this. This is where it comes from.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really funny, which is why we get to like I. I credit it with why our tweets are so funny, because it's not just me like I get Annoying after like five minutes. It's multiple people we can pick from, but the mountain lion one was one of those on okay not the whiteboard, but like Darren sent me a text, he's like this would be funny, and then we just made our own meme out of it and then hit send. And here we are now.
Speaker 1:Yes, because of murder mittens.
Speaker 2:Yes, i really hate it. And so, like that day, like all the plumbing in my house had exploded because it was so cold, which was part of the joke that we wrote in. So I'm in like an emergency situation, like my house is flooding and I'm trying to find a place to live and get all my dogs together, and then this tweet is going viral, like my job is on fire, my poor husband is like Like literally standing in water, and I'm like Ryan Reynolds is interactive with my tweet. What is Ted Cruz doing here? Get out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what is?
Speaker 1:going on Your phone is literally having like a nuclear meltdown.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i'm gonna cry. I'm really gonna cry. I'm so overstimulated right now I don't know what to do. So a lot of those replies are like In real time, like responses to people, because I was like in an elevated situation Just being. You know, people are saying dumb stuff and I'm like shut up, i'm doing other things right now. We kind of Kind of move on, but yeah, but from there it really did like give the people around here and the people that I work with a lot of trust that oh, like, you can quote-unquote go viral and things not be bad Again.
Speaker 2:2020 was a really hard year for everybody going viral. I Have a lot of mercy on people who, like are skeptical of stuff because they they tend to have good points. We don't like to hear that. But yeah, yeah, that's what that was for us. And then we got to. We I want to say we already pivoted our voice before then. I'm gonna give us credit. We had some tweets like pop off, but I think the highest we got was like six thousand and stuff. So like the algorithm is already there to like Really tip something over, so a lot of people reference them online. But we're like we had some really good dumb bangers back in there.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have to go. Do you find some deep cuts to share with this?
Speaker 2:episode.
Speaker 1:Well and so so kind of tying off of that. So I'm looking, i looked through sort of your Social media and you've got somewhere in the neighborhood of like half a million followers across platforms, and maybe more than that actually.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think it was like 200,000 on Twitter to Something on 230 on tick tock and maybe 50 on Instagram or something, and I try not to look at Facebook. I have a new rule that I will scroll Facebook until it makes me like want to disown an old friend or family member, and it's usually about 35 seconds these days.
Speaker 2:I just don't get on Facebook. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:But So so you have this huge platform and I feel like y'all have a really interesting mix of I mean, it's all. I think the tone holds up and the voice is consistent, which is really cool, and I don't think people realize how difficult that is To keep a consistent voice Throughout, whether you're talking about, you know, a goofy tweet about a mountain lion, or like serious issues that have to do with Interacting with the environment and nature and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you have a strategy for that, or is it just sort of like that's just the Sort of DNA of your office and the people that you work with?
Speaker 2:I want to say it's both because, like they're The hard line. Okay, so like the snarkiness is very true to like me and Smokey and the people so I'm talking about people who volunteer on the social media team. There's me, so it's my primary job, but like all this content and ideas and stuff They come from like my friends who like work with us in the office. So me and Smokey have this snarky, sarcastic attitude and then, like Micah and Darren are like dad, so they always have a great dad joke in the cannon, and then Kelly is like Really punny, you know things like that. So it is kind of hardline built into the DNA.
Speaker 2:But like to be funny with people, you have to like actually invest into people because humor is, humor is intimate and I don't think that, like I, people aren't comfortable like being friendly, then alone, like being Friends, like we're not very good at being friends with people because it takes a lot of attention, but if you want to be funny you have to pay attention. So anyway, i'm not friends with these people because that's my goal is to like use them or anything like that. That's ridiculous. But like it took a year or so to like just become friends and like get to know the people that you're around, to understand like, oh, this is why Micah thinks that's funny, and then I can adjust My thought and be like that actually is funny, you know, kind of a thing, because if you just trust like your own taste over and over again, it's like that's not useful to anybody. Like nobody does that literally nobody. Nobody does that. Um, probably the funniest people in the world don't do that. But um, yeah, it takes like it takes some friendship, like genuine, let's get to know each other time and in this environment You can't do that Like we we're leaving for a division meeting like tomorrow, where we're just gonna hang out together for a few days, um, talk about projects.
Speaker 2:But and then the second thing is is that like understanding that when I cross the line, or if we do cross the line on the other side, is that like wildlife Uh, can be harmed and our people can be harmed and nobody wants that responsibility? So that's another hard line. So there's like two of them, but in the bounds It's a fair game, like it's fun kind of a thing. Um, like soccer without the Out of bounds would be really boring and chaotic and nobody would play it. But like the boundaries are actually very good, i think, for building voices and like doing what we're doing. Um, so like they should a be respected, but like not feared. Yeah, they're there For reasons you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, and that's that is. I love the way you say that, that the boundaries are there. I I like your soccer analogy. That's really, that's really interesting. It's like without the boundaries It becomes Chaotic and it becomes something that it shouldn't be right in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah um, but then with it, with it within that, you have like all this, all this freedom to do fun stuff and to Yes. so a question I have and a question that that Comes up to me, because I I do some of this kind of communication through the podcast and my social media stuff and and like I'm trying to figure out the right way to ask this because, like there's, i have like an idea in my brain and I'm like I don't know, this is something that I worry about a lot And I think you kind of addressed it already, talking about like the boundary of like if you say the wrong thing, someone could take something wrong and get hurt or whatever else. right, like you know you're talking about not just like a lot of my stuff, is I yell about these dumb plant hacks where they put like banana?
Speaker 2:peels in water. I get so angry. I get so angry, sarah, keep doing those Like it is, like those are good content.
Speaker 1:It's almost like my spiritual discipline at this point of like I have to watch this crap And then. But like, if someone puts banana water in something, like they're not going to get hurt, right, like the stakes are low. Like do you have, i guess, the relationship, do you have the trust with your audience that if you're like no really guys, like this is a big deal, like this is something you really need to think about, like does your audience respond well to that? Or are they like, get back to the jokes.
Speaker 2:I okay, So I think it's. At first it was like get back to the jokes, but like being willing to be like I'm going to take an L on this TikTok and I'm going to take an L on this tweet because it's important, Like kind of thing. And like being consistent, being like I don't care if this is popular or not, Wear a life jacket, Like or like we don't care if this tweet doesn't go viral or not, Like don't pick up a font or things like that, and just being very consistently hardline on the on that thing. And then also the snarkiness in our tone kind of built is built in to that a little bit. Nobody is listening to the steel bat, Just like find your own thing to do, but but it's like the snarkiness kind of helps us too, because it is like serious And people, but also it's very southern.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like it's Southern, like we can, we you can get, you can politely get on to people here, like kind of a thing You know here in Texas. It's like it's just how we talk to people And I think everyone else, like regionally, gets confused in it, like are you being nice, are you being rude? It's like no, i'm being neither, but I am being direct, yeah, like.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to cut it out kind of thing. So it's it's a lot of that, which is how, like the people that I grew up around and that I work with, they're all like that. They communicate that way.
Speaker 1:Like You know, that's interesting And that's I don't know, that I've, i've, i've noticed it. I don't know if I've thought about it in those terms, but like, when you post something like, and when I've seen stuff come up on your page, that's like, you know, again still snarky, still funny, but it's like, no, really, this is a big deal. Like I take it in those terms of Yeah. This is a genuine correction that you're making.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, again, i grew up in Texas like I'm a Southern kid too, And it's like I hear it.
Speaker 1:I hear it. That's really interesting And I think that's that is definitely going to be something with the reach you have that some people are not going to pick up on. That's really fascinating to me.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you'd be surprised about the people who, like, don't pick up on it, because every single time, like you, can almost tell that it is a linguistics situation that they're not understanding.
Speaker 2:but like our following, who is mostly from the area, because that's how this algorithm works will like almost correct them for me and be like no, this is Oklahoma, like or like this is okay. So we tweeted that we don't have any moonfish and it confused the crap out of people, cause I'm like we don't have an ocean. Like yes, i meant we as in Oklahoma, not in the world.
Speaker 2:And people were like moonfishes are real And I'm like that's not what I said. That is it. Yeah, like this was an after lunch tweet. This was not a piece of content, this is just a geek Twitter live. But okay, yeah, but, and it became a problem because so many people like didn't understand regional speak, basically, so that we run into that, but we stay married to Oklahoma And that makes sense to be like we'll bring it back around because it's easier to do that way.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's interesting too, Cause you kind of have to right, Cause you are specifically the Oklahoma department of wildlife right. That is your job, that is your identity, that's what you do. You are there first and foremost for people interacting with wildlife in Oklahoma.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, it's like go bother Texas parks a while, like you know kind of a thing, but it's like. But it does like protect us from a lot of again. Soccer is a terrible game without the boundaries And it's also dangerous, like we can't get into all that, like I don't have again. That's a very Southern way And it's like I don't have time to get into all that. But it's off goal, it's off mission, it's off. If it's off, it's off And there's. I'm not going to break my back trying to go into a frontier that isn't like mine to have. So it's cool, have your moonfish. We have no ocean here. That's really interesting.
Speaker 1:So I've, as we I just looked at the time and this has gone fast because I'm really enjoying talking to you I've got a couple of just questions as we start to wrap up. Do you have a favorite national park?
Speaker 2:Oh man, i. Is it a Grand Canyon National Park? Yeah, okay, i really really love, i love the desert. I am a lizard person. I can't. I don't know what it is, i think it's probably being Latino. Just just like the heat I'm okay with. Second, it gets cold. I start struggling. You know, i do a lot of cold sports. I think that's part of it. For me is that like it's extreme when I walk outside, that's when it starts, that's when the sport starts. I also love like the Rocky. I love the Rockies. I'm in there like once a year. I love Longs Peak, which is the only 14er in the Rockies.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you can get on it without like going through the national park like entrance. It's not the formal entrance. It's like a trail entrance. It's really great climbing, So I really like Longs Peak, but maybe not as a park. Grand Canyon as climbing Longs Peak. So one of both The Rockies get a little full, but you know.
Speaker 1:Since this is a plant podcast, do you have a favorite plant?
Speaker 2:I think it's big blue stem grass. I like it. It's all in our flower bed. I like that. It gets orange in the fall and winter And it's like the grass that I associate with being home. It's like the plant that I think about when I think of Oklahoma. It's the color that I think about. I like it was all over our wedding and stuff like that. My husband is in Western Oklahoma and there's like big farmers and ranchers And whenever I think about like going home and being in that part of the country, like feeling really like yes, this is where my people are at, it's just big grass, it's like flat orange grass as far as you can see. So I really think it's big blue stem.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's really cool. I actually really identify pretty strongly with that, because up here in my part of Texas it's short grass, prairie medium grass prairie. So like yeah, it's very, like you said, kind of place setting. Yeah, it feels like home.
Speaker 2:The prairie is dope. Nobody gives it any love, but it's gorgeous and underrated.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And I love the prairie yeah.
Speaker 1:Big skies and, you know, short grasses as far as you can see.
Speaker 2:Paradox Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh man, this is an aside, but the most popular TikTok I've had in like a long time was we were in New Mexico, we'd gone to Carlsbad and there's the desert botanical garden out there And they do zoo. It's really pretty. It's beautiful, but they have a little like enclosure with prairie dogs and there's like a rock squirrel that comes out of the hole And I'm not a play, i'm like I'm not an animal guy. So I see this squirrel and I'm like are you lost?
Speaker 2:Like what are you doing here?
Speaker 1:And like that has been consistent, for whatever reason, that like hit a nerve. Everyone was like look at the funny squirrel. I don't know And I don't know if you've ever seen them. They have very human ears. Like it's a little upsetting actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think it's kind of gross, but I'm sorry, i'm sorry, i don't think that should be allowed.
Speaker 1:It's like uncanny valley, but a squirrel.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's see that uncanny squirrels is gonna have to go in this episode title. So the last question. this is something that I ask all of my guests. If you know, we've talked about a lot of great stuff, And if there was one thing, if you had a piece of advice about life or careers or whatever nature that you wanted to like leave with our listeners, what would that be? What's the one thing you'd want to send home with people?
Speaker 2:And it's probably like what I'm working on in myself in the biggest across. All of it now is that you're gonna be okay. Like you're gonna be okay. Like this isn't my first choice, but I got like a lot of rejection before I got here. I was in aiming for this, it just happened and it's okay. And whatever happens to me after this, it'll be okay Personally, professionally, like it'll be okay. And if you just give yourself the grace to calm down for a second, you can get through anything and you can do anything. You just gotta like bet on yourself that it'll be okay. And you got it because you're not stupid. So like, yeah, you got this.
Speaker 1:No, that's great advice. That's great advice. I love that. I love that, Sarah. that was so much fun.
Speaker 2:I got. Really. That was great. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1:Where all can people find you?
Speaker 2:I'm on. Okay, so I'm on Twitter, but, fair warning, like my personal Twitter is my personal Twitter, so it's whatever. Sure, don't look for like really smart musings on there. I hope you like Princess Diaries, but hey, it's at. Hey, i'm Sarah H-E-Y-A-I-M-S-A-R-A-H. And then Instagram I'm the same. And then TikTok, that's for me in my scrolling. And then Facebook I'm not there, don't.
Speaker 1:Don't work for you there.
Speaker 2:Don't let me, don't make me log in there, don't make me go. But.
Speaker 1:Well, that's awesome And I'll post all that as well as a link to the Oklahoma wildlife stuff in the show notes. But that was awesome. Thank you so much. That was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Y'all, like Sarah said, you're gonna be okay, no matter what happens, you're gonna find a way to be okay. I believe in you, sarah believes in you And I hope you believe in yourself. Y'all. Wasn't that such a great episode? She's so much fun, so knowledgeable and just, i think, one of again. I'm gonna say it again Sarah, you are one of the funniest people on the internet.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for listening. Thanks for being a part of PlantHropology. If you want, go follow me on social media. Thanks again to the Texas Tech Department of Plant and Social Science. Thanks to the PodFix Network, and if you're in the market for a book for yourself or for a loved one, go check out Plants to the Rescue, available for pre-order now and everywhere else on July 11th 2023. It would mean the world to me. You know I love you. Thanks for listening. Keep being kind to one another. If you have not been kind to one another to date, this is a great time to give that a shot. It's a good thing to do. Keep being really cool plant people and I will talk to you very soon. Thank you for that presentation. Thanks so much again to the PodFix Network. Hope you liked the program.
